The iPad...

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The iPad...

Postby Cakes on Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:56 pm

Any thoughts on this from the Mac fans of this board?
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Re: The iPad...

Postby Xandrellas on Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:10 pm

I've been a mac fan for a long time.

iPad is absolute garbage.

No Flash, No Camera, No new interface, lacking Multitasking capability, No USB, no HDMI.


I would happily purchase it if they just included such features. It would -slay- competitors if they had done so.

But, me being the iPhone owner I am, see it as a larger iPhone with way less features.

*edit* thinking about it further I'd rather just buy a netbook and install OSX on it.

sigh. such hopes for it.
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Re: The iPad...

Postby Michael on Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:49 pm

I had no hopes for it because when I heard what they were doing I knew immediately what it was - a giant iPod touch. There's nothing special about it, they shouldve been focusing on making a touch sensitive screen for a notebook or desktop.
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Re: The iPad...

Postby Purplemonger on Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:23 pm

See and touch your email in ways you never could before.
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Re: The iPad...

Postby Malrik on Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:38 pm

Xandrellas wrote:I've been a mac fan for a long time.

iPad is absolute garbage.



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Re: The iPad...

Postby Feist on Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:50 pm

Less space than a Nomad, no wireless.

Lame.
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Re: The iPad...

Postby Tedium on Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:39 pm

Cool concept but they need a lot more features for it to be worthwhile.
If they had added a front facing camera, that may have been enough for me to get one. It also needs to support bluetooth A2DP, and I think it really needed to have some IR capabilities to tie it into home automation systems or even use it as a glorified remote for your living room.
Needs to be able to run background applications, no pandora while doing other stuff is a big problem, though that can easily be added in a software update since it's just running iphone OS.
It will have 3g, and technically it's unlocked, but I don't know if it supports Tmobiles frequencies or just at&t's. If it were to support bluetooth (and it might since it does for keyboards and such), you could in theory use this for skype for video calls with a headset. It does have a built in mic so you could do audio calls via skype as is, but no video obviously.

It's also a 4:3 ratio, and it will only output in standard def, so no hi-def output that I'm aware of.
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Re: The iPad...

Postby Javan on Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:47 pm

I won't get into how much I dislike the iPad. Instead I will direct your attention to what I AM personally looking forward to (in terms of what a tablet these days should offer).

It's called the Adam from Notion Ink.

Price is currently projected at $320

The Goods:

Android OS
NVIDIA’s Tegra T20 processor
1024 x 600 res
3 megapixel camera (that swives from front to back)
HD video support
HDMI-out
3.5-mm headphone jack
16GB or 32GB flash drive with expandable storage via MicroSD card
A-GPS, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR and 3G

8 Hours HD Video, 16 hours WiFi, 2 days low level mode (roughly)

What is most impressive about this tablet is the display and the Pixel Qi monitor when used in low level mode. Watch the video in this link at the 5:05 mark. They show off how you can barely notice a difference when in low level mode, using only 0.2W of power consumption for the display (average tablets use 2.0W).

TL;DR
This thing is sick.

Anyway, enjoy the info. Enough nerd talk for me. Time to work on my bikes.
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Re: The iPad...

Postby Michael on Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:18 pm

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Re: The iPad...

Postby Feist on Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:05 am

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Re: The iPad...

Postby Lherin on Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:19 am

I don't think the iPad is a bad product, but as a tech person it certainly doesn't do enough to justify me buying one. Maybe the next version.

For me, lack of multi-tasking, no flash, and insufficient storage are the things holding me back. It may be great for lots of other people, but not for me.
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Re: The iPad...

Postby Cakes on Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:12 pm

It has some great things going for it, but when they're all the same great things that the iPhone has as well, it's a little underwhelming. It's also a little refreshing to see even the most rabid of Mac fans scratch their head, wondering how the turtleneck let them down.
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Re: The iPad...

Postby gwystyl on Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:30 pm

I think linking 2001 iPod reviews and the famous /. commentary on the device is more than a little unfair. FWIW, I knew the iPod was going to be it and had one of the first ever made.

The iPad has a lot of things going for it, but too many things against it. The absence of multi-tasking *does* matter. The limited storage space (not Apple's fault, just limits of current tech) go against it being a real portable media player. Just can't be taken seriously with 64GB of storage. The inability for it to use my wireless device and tether to my data plan, rather requiring its own separate $30/mo data plan is pretty bad.

I don't view it as something that has to do everything an iPhone does, but with a bigger screen. The device is intended to complement a smart phone and a computer. It doesn't really do it well. I think that if they add in multi-tasking, the ability to piggy back on another wireless device's data capability and bumping up storage to the 200GB+ range will make it act like what it was intended to be. I'd toss one of these in my courier bag in lieu of a laptop of it could pull all that off, but it can't.

It's a $500 device, and if you think of it as "would I pay $100 more for a 10" iPod Touch?" then it's easier to understand this device. Too bad that's all it is.
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Re: The iPad...

Postby Feist on Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:55 pm

All I'll say is that all of the things that are truly gamechangingly awesome about the iPad have absolutely nothing to do with any sense of how 'useful' it might be to the average technology nerd, and that people trying to understand how it could ever replace their Netbook, Kindle, or iPod Touch or iPhone are basically missing the point.

Honestly, the single most important part of the whole thing is the Processor. It's a Really Big Deal.
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Re: The iPad...

Postby Michael on Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:57 pm

gwystyl wrote:The device is intended to complement a smart phone and a computer.


I never really looked at it like that before but I dunno if I agree with it. A smart phone, especially an iPhone, is more like a laptop than anything. Why would you even need a buffer that's bigger, less portable, with less functions?
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Re: The iPad...

Postby Feist on Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:07 pm

Michael wrote:
gwystyl wrote:The device is intended to complement a smart phone and a computer.


I never really looked at it like that before but I dunno if I agree with it. A smart phone, especially an iPhone, is more like a laptop than anything. Why would you even need a buffer that's bigger, less portable, with less functions?



In the not far off future, laptops as we know them will be gone.

You will have a Computer at home or the office for heavy lifting (if you have any need whatsoever for such a device in your life, most people won't.)

You will have a Smartphone that goes everywhere.

All those people that compliment those 2 devices with a laptop at the moment that they only take with them when they expect to use it, and which they use for reading email while they eat lunch or write a paper on the train or play minesweeper/dwarf fortress with during a meeting?

Yeah, that thing is a fucking dinosaur.
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Re: The iPad...

Postby gwystyl on Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:09 pm

@Feist
From what I've read of the Apple A4, it's basically just a slight customization to existing ARM tech, so I fail to see why it's a really big deal other than to point out that Apple is trying to emancipate themselves from other chip makers. The game-changing element that the iPad has had thus far is to force a much bigger incumbent (amazon.com) into a new price dynamic. I don't think I've ever seen such a sudden jerking around at a corporate level... ever.

@Mikeal
That's perfectly fine that you don't see a need for one, but as an example, when I'm traveling I want browser, email, chat, calendar, addressbook, movie playing, music playing and, possibly, ebook reading (although I have yet to do this). Now, I'd be flat out lying if I said I didn't wish my awesome Motorola Droid had a 10" screen at times so I could better browse the web, or tap out that forum post, or watch that movie, etc. Is my Droid sufficient? Absolutely. Do I wish I could enjoy those things on a bigger screen that was still super portable? Absolutely. Would it bother me that it wasn't a full fledged laptop? Not in most cases. I could tell you that I'd be packing one or the other, certainly not both.

It's nothing I'm interested in, to be clear. I'm just pointing out that I can see many places and think of many kinds of users who'd want this. This isn't dead in the water, but it's not going to sell 1mm units in its release quarter (Apr-Jun '10).
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Re: The iPad...

Postby Feist on Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:19 pm

Re: Processor - It's 1) the fact that Apple is making it's own silicon. from a Business and future tech perspective, that's a massively big deal, and if you don't see why, you don't understand a thing about what Apple has been trying to do for the past ~10 years. and 2) The fact that, by all reports, this thing is fucking ludicrously obscenely, jaw droppingly fast.

Re: Sales potential, and does this have a future:

Outside of niche markets (OMG HOW WILL I PLAY WOW ON AN IPAD WHEN I AM ON THE ROAD (you won't dumbass, but most people don't care, they just want to log into facebook anyway), OMG I NEED TO EDIT MY MOVIE WHEN I SHOOT ON LOCATION (okay, professional high performance portable machines are in fact a Niche Market. Your grandmother, a CEO, a typical Undergrad, has no need for that performance, and would benefit far more from a highly usable interface, great portability, and the best UI for digitized textbooks ever developed), OMG I NEED A MASSIVE HARD DRIVE FOR MY ENORMOUS COLLECTION OF MIDGET PORNO (Networked Storage.) etc. etc.), there is just nothing that the averag person contemplates a netbook or notebook for that the iPad doesn't, or won't very soon do better.

Flash is a red herring. Flash is essentially meaningless long term, and is a dying format. The only reason it's as dominant as it is is video on the web. It's days are numbered as soon as the Firefox people and the Webkit people get on the same page. Microsoft is off jacking off doing their own thing anyway and the truth is that the only advantage Flash has is that until somebody wins this format war it has a larger installed base.

Honestly, the biggest knock against the ipad at the moment is text entry. I'm not convinced that the soft-keyboard metaphor works anymore at that screen size. It breaks down pretty hardcore outside of a device I can hold and peck with my thumb I think. The external keyboards they're marketing are a good first step, but I think the form factor needs to go through another iteration or two before somebody finds a sweet spot for text entry.
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Re: The iPad...

Postby gwystyl on Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:29 pm

Feist wrote:Re: Processor - It's 1) the fact that Apple is making it's own silicon. from a Business and future tech perspective, that's a massively big deal, and if you don't see why, you don't understand a thing about what Apple has been trying to do for the past ~10 years. and 2) The fact that, by all reports, this thing is fucking ludicrously obscenely, jaw droppingly fast.


Enlighten me.

There are no publicly known facts about the A4, but the most likely answer is that it's a slightly tweaked ARM7. It's noteworthy only because it shows Apple is ready to do this.

As for text entry, I've spoken with a few people that have handled the device and they say the on screen landscape-mode keyboard works pretty well. They were surprised, at any rate. I can see your point with portrait typing, which is why i guess the keyboard dock holds the iPad in portrait.
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Re: The iPad...

Postby Feist on Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:45 pm

gwystyl wrote:
Feist wrote:Re: Processor - It's 1) the fact that Apple is making it's own silicon. from a Business and future tech perspective, that's a massively big deal, and if you don't see why, you don't understand a thing about what Apple has been trying to do for the past ~10 years. and 2) The fact that, by all reports, this thing is fucking ludicrously obscenely, jaw droppingly fast.


Enlighten me.

There are no publicly known facts about the A4, but the most likely answer is that it's a slightly tweaked ARM7. It's noteworthy only because it shows Apple is ready to do this.

As for text entry, I've spoken with a few people that have handled the device and they say the on screen landscape-mode keyboard works pretty well. They were surprised, at any rate. I can see your point with portrait typing, which is why i guess the keyboard dock holds the iPad in portrait.


Short version: Apple as a company thrives, above all else on control. That which they cannot control, they seek to emancipate from the control of others at no costs (see the companies embrace of various open standards on the web, of open source technologies around Mac OS X, but most particularly in those areas where the Mac communicates with other systems). Over the course of the Jobs years, Apple has slowly loved to more and more 'open' architectures, essentially biding their time until they were in a position to simply build their own chip in house. What it means is that they are now in a position to control the future development of one of the single largest bottlenecks (from a technology standpoint) to any number of feature innovations.

Want to know why the iPad doesn't have a front facing camera? 10 bucks says it's because when the iPad team demo'd iChat Mobile for Steve Jobs on an iPad prototype with such a camera the performance blew chunks and he threw the device at the wall. 10 more bucks says it's a top priority for the A5 team to improve hardware video acceleration so that they can launch the iPad 2 /Now with iChat Mobile!/ in a years time. The camera itself would have been easy to include. The software to make it awesome is not, because the hardware probably isn't powerful enough to handle it.

We're geeks here. We take things apart. We understand what a command line is. We care about things like processors and games and UI design and multitasking and whether a video on the web is done with HTML5 or Flash or whatever.

The typical customer Apple wants to reach with an iPad doesn't. What they care about is that when they push the Video Chat button that their kid across the country's face shows up smiling and they can just start talking. They care that when they hit Play Video, it starts playing as close to instantly as they damn well please, and their attention span for this rarely exceeds 10 seconds.

I sold Apple products to these people for 5 years. 1 in 10 would come in and make a snide remark about how an iPhone couldn't multitask or how they couldn't buy a new graphics card for an iMac.

The other 9 people would stare at these people and wonder why they'd ever want to. And I'm not just talking about Older folks, though there's certainly plenty of them, but younger folks too. If you are between the age of 20 and 40, you are just as unlike the kids coming of age now as you are unlike your parents when it comes to your relationship to computers. They may not be afraid of the devices in the way that our parents generation were, but for the most part, computers are just as much of a Black Box to them as they were to our parents generation, and the fact is that, outside of the niche users (and if you don't think you're a niche user, and you're posting on a forum on the internet about a video game, you are fucking out of your mind, sorry), people like it that way.

People who complain about a lack of multi tasking on a device like the iPad are either a) Niche users who really should be looking at a more robust device anyway (I want to render my video that I edited in the background!), or b) really just looking for a more robust notification system for events that theoretically shouldn't require a background process anyway (incoming Email/IM/RSS/whatever updates), and more robust caching of previous tasks/application states as they switch between them (and perhaps more fluid task switching in general, although I don't know that 'hit home button - select other app' isn't the best way to handle things on a purely touch UI).
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